President-elect Donald Trump said Thursday that Congress should get rid of the debt ceiling, a day after he came out against a deal reached by congressional lawmakers to fund the government before a shutdown occurs.

In a phone interview with NBC News, Trump said getting rid of the debt ceiling entirely would be the “smartest thing [Congress] could do. I would support that entirely.”

“The Democrats have said they want to get rid of it. If they want to get rid of it, I would lead the charge,” Mr. Trump added. 

Trump suggested that the debt ceiling is a meaningless concept — and that no one knows for sure what would happen if it were to someday be breached — “a catastrophe, or meaningless” — and no one should want to find out. 

“It doesn’t mean anything, except psychologically,” he said.

On the possibility of a shutdown, which would occur at 12:01 a.m. on Saturday if a funding deal isn’t reached, he said, “If there’s going to be a shutdown, we’re going to start it with a Democratic president” — suggesting that the fight playing out in Congress now is necessary to clear the decks before his administration begins in January. 

Asked if he still has confidence in House Speaker Mike Johnson, Mr. Trump responded: “We’ll see. [The funding deal] they had yesterday was unacceptable,” referring to the Speaker’s continuing resolution. “In many ways it was unacceptable. It’s a Democrat trap.”

Trump said he had discussed his views on the short-term funding deal with Elon Musk prior to the X owner’s posts on Wednesday.

“I told him that if he agrees with me, that he could put out a statement.” Mr. Trump said “He’s looking at things from a cost standpoint.” He described their views as in line, and “very much on track.”